Carbon 14 in Dinosaur bones - Scientific Evidence - The BioLogos Forum
Feb 13, University of Arizona researchers have cracked one of the puzzles Using radiocarbon dating, a team led by Greg Hodgins in the UA's. Carbondated dinosaur bones are less than 40, years old . USA; AA is University of Arizona, Tuscon AZ, USA; UG is University of Georgia, Athens GA, .. The difference between a puzzle and a mystery is that the former can be solved. The most widely known form of radiometric dating is carbon dating. This is what archaeologists use to determine the age of human-made artifacts.
From Biogeography, Biology Colloquium, From The Great Basin with special emphasis on glacial and postglacial times. University of Utah Bulletin, vol. Two reviews by Ernst Antevs from Geol. Article bound in bibliography of Ernst Valdemar Antevs, Vol. List in shelf list order of publications of Ernst Antevs held in Antevs Library. From the Review of Scientific Instruments, vol.
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Department of Geosciences, University of Arizona, Nahal Yael, Southern Israel. Shafiqullah, Muhammed Damon, Paul E. From Earth and Planetary Science Letters, 62 Evidence From Macquarie Island. Reprinted from Nature, vol. From Reviews of Geophysics and Space Physics, vol. Arizona Butler, Robert F. Geophyical Research Letters, vol. Journal of Geophysical Research vol. North Horn Formation, Central Utah. Arizona Geological Digest, vol.
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Carbon dating dinosaur bones
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- What exactly are we dating here? Sample contamination and general trustworthyness
- The research by Miller et al.
Springer-Verlag, Berlin Heidelberg, Klein, Jeffery Lerman, J. From Instituto de Geologia Boletin num. Instituto de Geologia Boletin no. Instituto de Geologia Boletin No. Journal of the Arizona Academy of Science, vol. Long, Austin Sigalove, Joel J. Acta Archaeologica Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae The Reconstruction of Past Environments, Ft. Burgwin Research Center, New Mexico, Long, Austin Haynes, C.
Vance Arizona Radiocarbon Dates V. Antevs Damon, Paul E.
How Do Scientists Determine the Age of Dinosaur Bones?
From Transactions of SME, vol. Long, Austin Grey, Donald C. From Society of Mining Engineers, March, American Geophysical Union Transactions, vol. Chapter in Scientific Methods in Medieval Archaeology. University of California Press, Berkeley, From means of Correlation of Quaternary Successions vol. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, vol.
American Geographical Society Publication no. Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences,vol. Geochronology Department, University of Arizona, Tucson, From Eclogae Geologicae Helvetiae, vol. Unlisted Source, circa Radiometric Determination of Potassium in Silicates. Long, Austin Wallick, E. Acta Cientifica Venezolana, vol. Colorado Plateau Edge in Arizona. Earth and Planetary Science Letters, vol. In JuneDr. Ernest Kwok was made chairman of the committee overseeing the microscopy lab, and became Armitage's new supervisor.
In the summer ofArmitage responded to an invitation to participate in a search for dinosaur fossils in Glendive, Montana in the famous Hell Creek formation. He found the brow-horn of a triceratops; it was not petrified. Studying the horn at the CSUN lab, he discovered soft tissue in the supposedly million-year-old or more fossil.
While teaching students how to use microscopes in the lab that he directed at CSUN, Armitage engaged them in brief socratic dialogue about the possible age of the horn.
Kwok's students was stunned by the discovery and implications of soft tissue in the triceratops horn, and told Dr. On June 12,Dr. Kwok stormed into Armitage's lab and shouted, "We are not going to tolerate your religion in this department!
Armitage reported this to the Biology Department chair, Dr. They both played down the event and told Armitage to forget it. Praise for Armitage's work continued from distinguished members of the Biology Department.
In Novembera photo of the soft tissue in the triceratops horn was published on the cover of American Laboratory magazine. The former chair of the Biology Department, Dr.
Oppenheimer, wrote a ringing endorsement of Armitage in a letter of recommendation. On February 12,the journal Acta Histochemica published a paper by Armitage describing the discovery of soft tissue in the triceratops horn.
Acta Histochemica is a peer-reviewed journal of structural biochemistry of cells and tissue that welcomes advanced microscopical imaging; it has been publishing since On the day the paper was published, Dr. Kwok called a secret meeting of the committee overseeing the microscopy lab. Armitage had served on the committee for three years, but he was not invited.
The committee decided to terminate Armitage. On February 19,William Krohmer told Armitage that there was a "witch hunt" being mounted against him, and advised him to resign. When he refused to resign, Krohmer told him he would be terminated. Armitage was fired on February 27, He was told that his job had only been a "temporary appointment". There is a sidenote to this story. Hugh Miller, head of the Paleochronology group, obtained a bone sample from the triceratops horn Mark Armitage discovered.
As you can see, the bone was dated by them to 33, years before present. The data for their four dinosaurs is below. More soft tissue A remarkable find was published in the journal Nature in April The "bone bed is characterized by the presence of completely disarticulated skeletal elements at various stages of embryonic development". This made it possible to detect the preservation of organic residues, probably direct products of the decay of complex proteins, within both the fast-growing embryonic bone tissue and the margins of the vascular spaces.
Our results clearly indicate the presence of both apatite and amide peaks within woven embryonic bone tissue, which should not be susceptible to microbial contamination or other post-mortem artefacts. Embryology of Early Jurassic dinosaur from China with evidence of preserved organic remains.
Commentary Radiocarbon RC or Carbon C dating of linen, cotton, bones, fossils, wood, sea shells, seeds, coal, diamond anything with carbon is one of the most common and well understood of the various scientific dating methods. Carbon is a radioactive isotope of carbon that is formed naturally in the atmosphere. All plants and animals have a regular intake of carbon while they are alive.
When an animal or plant dies, it no longer takes in carbon of any form. C has a half-life of years. The maximum theoretical detection limit is aboutyears, but radiocarbon dating is only reliable up to 55, years with the best equipment. Older dates are considered to be tentative. If, as generally believed, dinosaurs have been extinct for 65 million years, there should not be one atom of Carbon left in their bones. The accuracy of carbon dates depends on whether the ratio of Carbon to Carbon was the same in the past as it is today.
There are two types of C dating technologies. The original one, counting Beta decay particles, is a multistep process and requires sample sizes of several grams. Beta counting is prone to possible errors in each of the many phases. AMS uses a much smaller sample size, and actually counts the Carbon atoms as they are separated from the sample.
The equipment accelerates streams of charged atomic particles to high velocities in order to sort and analyze them. Carbon dating of bone is one of the most difficult tasks in carbon dating, and requires the most care of any carbonaceous material. This is mainly due to the nature of bone, which is a very porous material. Certain parts of bone look like a sponge under the microscope.
Many dinosaur bones are hard as rock because the original material has been replaced with a silicon material such as quartz. These are "mineralized" or "fossilized". We have found un-mineralized dinosaur bones.
We then scrape the outer surface off to get rid of surface contamination, and date the inner remaining material. One can date just the purified bioapatite, the total organics, or the collagen, or a combination of these, as we did in several cases.
This is a remarkable find because collagen, being a soft tissue present in most animals, is supposed to decay in a few thousand years. Collagen is the main protein found in connective tissue of animals.
It can make up from 1 to 6 percent of muscle mass. Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered in Glendive Montana, and our group received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for Carbon testing. Both bones were tested by a licensed lab for presence of collagen. Both bones did in fact contain some collagen.
The best process Accelerator Mass Spectrometry was used to date them. Total organic carbon and dinosaur bioapatite was extracted and pretreated to remove potential contaminants, and concordant radiocarbon dates were obtained. They were similar to radiocarbon dates for ice-age megafauna such as Siberian mammoths, saber tooth tigers of the Los Angeles LaBrea Tarpits, sloth dung, and giant bison.
We usually prefer AMS dating because of its inherent superior accuracy, but use the conventional method when large samples are available in order to completely rule out contamination. This is recommended by a carbon-dating laboratory specialist.
Robert Bennett, physicist and co-author, agree that "the AOGS-AGU assembly encourages presentation of reliable data even though the topic may be controversial.
This is a very wise policy for the advacement of science and the education of people everywhere. Thus, we encourage our colleagues to do their own carbon dating of dinosaur bones from museums and university fossil repositories around the world, as well as testing for C in scrapings from dinosaur bones as they are excavated.
We are anxious to see their results presented, just as we have done. Also, we call on the news media and citizens everywhere to urge paleontologists, curators, university faculty, and government scientific agencies to encourage and support further testing for C content in dinosaur remains. Scientists need to know the actual chronology of the Earth and the age of the fossils.
Waldemar Julsrud, a German hardware merchant in Acambaro, Mexico, was riding his horse on the lower slope of El Toro Mountain on a sunny morning in July Suddenly he spotted some partially exposed hewn stones and a ceramic object half buried in the dirt. He dismounted and dug out of the ground the hewn stones as well as a few ceramic pieces. Julsrud, who was archaeologically astute, immediately realized that these ceramic pieces were unlike anything that he had seen.
The objects he held in his hand were distinctively different than any other known Indian culture. When a few ceramic fragments were found there, Julsrud hired diggers to excavate. This discovery brought world wide attention from archaeologists who at first mistakenly defined them as Tarascan, but later they were correctly identified as a whole New Indian culture - the Chupicuaro.
Julsrud at age sixty-nine was on the brink of making a discovery that may prove to be the greatest archaeological discovery ever made. He hired a Mexican farmer, Odilon Tinajero, to dig in the area where the ceramic figurines were found and bring him any other similar objects. Soon Tinajero had a wheelbarrow full of ceramic pottery that had been excavated on El Toro Mountain.
Charles Hapgood notes that "Julsrud was a shrewd businessman and he now made a deal with Tinajero that is very important for our story. He told Tinajero that he would pay him one peso worth about 12 cents for each complete piece he brought in. Among the thousands of artifacts excavated were items that turned Julsrud's mansion into "the museum that scared scientists.
The objects were made of clay and stone, varying in size from a few inches long to statues three feet high, and dinosaur objects four to five feet long. In the collection, that now numbered over 20, objects, not one could be found to be a duplicate of another.
REPRINTS Department of Geosciences University of Arizona
Each of the clay pieces had been individually made, without molds, skillfully sculptured, and carefully decorated. Several hundred of the figurines were scientifically identified as representing many species of dinosaurs, including duck billed Trachodon, Gorgosaurus, horned Monoclonius, Ornitholestes, Titanosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus Paleococincus, Diplodocus, Podokosaurus, Struthiomimos, Plesiosaur, Maiasaura, Rhamphorynchus, Iguanodon, Brachiosaurus, Pteranodon, Dimetrodon, Ichtyornis, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Rhynococephalia and other unknown or as yet unidentified dinosaur species.
These remarkable dinosaur figurines threaten orthodox concepts and time scales in many fields of study. Sanderson was amazed in to find that there was an accurate representation of the American dinosaur Brachiosaurus, which was almost totally unknown to the general public at that time. Sanderson wrote about the figurine in the Julsrud collection.
It is about a foot tall. The point is it is an absolutely perfect representation of Brachiosaurus, known only from East Africa and North America. There are a number of outlines of the skeletons in the standard literature but only one fleshed out reconstruction that I have ever seen. This is exactly like it. InArthur Young submitted two of the figurines to Dr.
The Masca lab had obtained thermoluminescent dates of up to 2, B. In a letter dated September 13,addressed to Mr.
Young, Dr Rainey said: Now after we have had years of experimentation both here and at the lab at Oxford, we have no doubt about the dependability of the thermoluminescent method. I should also point out, that we were so concerned about the extraordinarily ancient dates of these figures, that Mark Han in our lab made an average of 18 runs on each one of the four samples. Hence, there is a very substantial bit of research in these particular pieces All in all the lab stands on these dates for the Julsrud material, whatever that means in terms of archeological dating in Mexico, or in terms of 'fakes verse's authentic' pieces.
They asserted that the ceramics gave off regenerated light signals and could be no more than 30 years old. A thermoluminescent technician admitted that no other ceramics existed, in his experience, that produced regenerated light signals, and no other thermoluminescent dating of ceramics had ever been done by utilization of a regenerated light signal.
In short, the excuse was a hocus pocus, laboratory trick to avoid the obvious conclusion that dinosaurs and man lived together. John Tierney determined to expose the University of Pennsylvania's shenanigans by testing with standard procedures. Tierney had two fragments of Julsrud-type ceramics excavated at El Toro Mountain in Acambaro, and inin Julsrud's presence, Tierney submitted these pieces to Dr.